Via telephone to Toronto, ONT
Monday, July 28th 2003
Words by Angelo Colussi

You just got back from L.A. What were you doing there?
There’s the art fair there. There’s the L.A. art fair which is a really, really big art fair but then there’s this thing called the Scope Art Fair. I don’t know who started it, but it’s a more alternative art fair.

Were you playing?
No. It had nothing to do with music. An independent curator was just picking a lot of Toronto art and she got some free air miles. Then she gave them to me and my art partner Karen. We do this project together called The Ensemble of Tops and Bottoms, which is part performance, part zine-making. We get dress up clothes, like, big, big piles of them and just dress up and make weird outfits. We did a performance there where we brought other people in and asked them to perform. It’s the kind of thing where people walking around the art fair could come and join in. But it was in a hotel room. The art fair was in a hotel. We basically just got a free ride to L.A. and the only thing we had to do was dress up and take pictures. So that was fun. I had never been to L.A. before.

You recently completed your first tour in the U.K. Did you find that the Hidden Cameras reputation as this “spectacle” preceded you or were people surprised still at the show?
I didn’t think people had too many expectations. We had fans there. But I didn’t sense people were like, ‘Oh where’s the circus?’ But there wasn’t a circus, there were just six of us.

Usually your group numbers in the dozens. Not everyone went I guess?
We were opening up for another band. It didn’t seem to make sense at all. So it was more about the music and getting across the basic elements of the music. It was good. It was fun. When we were touring we came up with our own little tricks to do, just fun things to keep ourselves amused, which we’d never done before. Sometimes we started our show just marching through the audience with our instruments just singing a song. We had never done that in Toronto before.

So was that a preview? Are you going to tour North America?
We did do a bigger tour with about five more people. We did New York, Chicago, Pittsburgh and Cleveland.

Are you planning to go back out to the U.S. again?
No. (laughs) I don’t like it there. It’s OK. I like Chicago, playing Chicago.

I know you prefer to play odd venues. Did you book alternative places to perform?
No. That’s the other thing. The tours are boring because we just play these boring bars.

Do you hate bars?
I just don’t like spending every day in them, you know what I mean? It’s not like I hate them. It’s just that’s not where I want to hang out everyday. Just because I’m in a music band doesn’t mean that’s the kind of culture I want to be around all the time. I’m so happy that we played the Warhol museum in Pittsburgh, because that was like the perfect venue.

Do you ever see you going on more of a full, organized tour?
Maybe, but it depends on how much money it costs. We went into severe debt just going on tour with six people, so we’ll see. I like the idea of even doing a more stripped-down tour that’s way more laid-back. Maybe three people or something. I’ve done shows abroad just by myself too.

Tell me about “Gay Folk Church Music.” That’s a pretty powerful tagline.
It was something I wrote on a flyer for our first show. And it just seemed to be nice to have some sort of continuity to the flyers that I made. To have that tag on it. To try to lure people in, or get people interested. But at this point it’s quite redundant.

Is that because people know who you are now?
Yeah, and people take everything so seriously when you’re more established I guess. And that wasn’t really the context under which it was used. It was used in the context of us being in an unknown band. So it’s different.

It seems that because you sing about penises, many people perceive you as some kind of spokesperson for the gay community.
Maybe, but just because there’s nobody else that does it. So, I guess by default. If you wanna me call that [a spokesperson], that’s fine. I would never call myself that.

Do you think that it’s unfair?
No, it’s fine. But it doesn’t mean that that’s what I consider myself. I don’t think of that. My lyrics aren’t necessarily political just because they talk about gay stuff, or that I’m a gay activist or something. I could care less about that. I’m not a gay activist and nor do I care that much about gay politics, or even the gay community itself. But I am gay, and I’m definitely not going to write songs that are vague or that don’t denote sexuality.

Are you more comfortable talking about the music?
I like talking about the lyrics, but it has to be specific. I don’t like talking about them generally, as if I’m an activist about something. But sometimes I make fun of that in some songs. Like “Ban Marriage” [from The Smell Of Our Own] is kind of making fun of that in a way.

Making fun of gay politics?
Yeah, or the idea of it.

Did you grow up going to church?
Oh yeah.

What faith?
Baptist mostly.

Do you have memories of hearing your church band?
Yeah. For a time we had guitar players playing along. I mean, structurally, it’s very similar to my band with an organ and a tambourine and a guitar and stuff. So that’s why I called it “church music” because people said – my best friend would say – ‘It sounds like church music,’ and we went to church together. I wasn’t the first person to recognize that; somebody else was recognizing that in my songs.

Is your new material in the vein of The Smell Of Our Own?
It’s hard to say because that record was based on layers. The first layers are just guitars and drums and stuff so you can’t really tell what it’s going to sound like. The final layer on that last record was the choir and the pipe organ which added the whole sound to it – the airy sound to it – the sound of a church knave or whatever. I don’t know if I wanna put a pipe organ on every single song but the instrumentation will be pretty much the same. The choir’s on a lot of the songs, and that kind of defines the sound in a way. I want to define a different sound. It’s hard to say before you’ve actually done it but I do know there’s going to be moments where it’s stripped-down a lot of the time. The first record is very built-up most of the time, it’s always got stuff going on. I want more peaks and valleys on this record, like moments where it’s just me and the guitar, and then some strings come in and then that’s it. I don’t want the cacophony all the time. But then when there’s a cacophony I want it to be twice as cacophonous; not only have strings and percussive instruments, but horns and then a choir and then more, and then more, and then more.

Is the stuff you’re recording right now going to be put out on Rough Trade as well?
If they like it (laughs). I’m sure it will.

How did you get hooked up with them?
A person sent a link from the CBC [Canada's government-sponsored radio and television network] to [Rough Trade head honcho] Geoff Travis and he emailed me back, very enthusiastic, and then I sent him five songs. They weren’t even done and he signed us based on that.

He seems really passionate about you guys. Have you ever had a heart-to-heart discussion about it?
I don’t know if we have heart-to-heart talks, but he really likes the music. He thinks I’m a good songwriter and he likes all the orchestrations. He’s just a fan of the music.

Your band seems to have re-invigorated Rough Trade a little bit.
Yeah, he said that before about us.

Which must be a good feeling. But, probably a little strange.
Yeah, strange as well. But good. All those people at the label are all very nice.

So what was the last record you bought?
Let’s see. What did I buy yesterday? I got a Gordon Lightfoot record for a dollar. I forget what it’s called, but it’s a really good one with him sitting cross-legged in front of a house wearing all denim [Sundown].

Aren’t they all like that?
Yeah (laughs).