Enid’s, Brooklyn NY
Monday, August 18, 2003
Interview by Tilley Jenkins
Photo by Emily Wilson

I called Jeff Salane (drums) from Panthers to make sure everything was on track for the interview scheduled later that night. Our conversation ended with, ‘So as long as nothing comes up, I’ll see you guys at 11:30 p.m.’ Prophetic. About a half an hour later the power went out. For two days. As the print deadline grew closer, we all rallied and pulled ourselves together to meet at a local bar the night before the final deadline. I stepped into Enid’s and heard the DJ flooring the volume control on his tables. I couldn’t believe how ill-fated this interview had been. Enid’s was never loud. Never. It’s a local hangout for music nerds for crying out loud. After I’d gotten over the imagery of Panthers and I being star-crossed lovers, I realized that the frustrating turn of events wasn’t unlucky at all. It was perfect.

What better atmosphere to share with the Brooklyn-based quintet than a raucous rock ‘n’ roll dance party? What better representation of them as a band than to have the DJ rebelling against the traditional setting by turning his music up a notch, having a shitload of fun, and in his own way yelling in your face. The Panthers (who are adamant about no “the” in their name) are composed of members of some of your favorite bands. Justin Chearno (guitar) spent time in Pitchblende and still plays with Turing Machine, Kip Uhlhorn (bass) played in The Red Scare, and the other three including Jeff, Jayson Green (vocals) and Geoff Garlock (guitar) made up the heaviness that was Orchid.

Panthers have arisen from the ashes of their first album (Are you Down?, Troubleman) and set an explosive stage for themselves. I’d challenge any band in New York (or elsewhere) to try and follow the fury of their live act. Their badass sound has elicited comparisons to the MC5, The Stooges and Nation of Ulysses but Panthers however, decry this labeling and dare you to listen to them as a singular band with a sound all their own – which they are doing rightfully so these days.

Not only do Panthers have the tough-guy sound, they also have the attitude. Despite how frightened you’ve become that they’ll run over you in their monster trucks, I promise they’re also just really nice guys.

So the critics pretty much panned your first release Are You Down?, but when your five song EP Let’s Get Serious (Dim Mak) was released less than a year later, many of the very same critics got down on their knees for you guys. From Are you Down? to Let’s Get Serious, what happened to make the new album better?
Jayson: With the first one, we were basically like ‘Okay, we’re gonna make a record right now!’ We had ten songs and we went right to the recording studio. We had just started to play together. It wasn’t as if we had a ton of songs and could pick and choose what went on the album. We had to have everything done before we even went in to record including the artwork and tracklisting.
Justin: Very much like the cover of ‘SUP magazine went to the printer with our name on it before we were actually interviewed. (laughs)

We only did it so you guys would feel at home. (laughs)
Jeff: I thought that Are You Down? really separated us from our other bands in a weird way.
Justin: All our other bands were good. (laughs all around)
Jeff: It just didn’t sound like any of our other bands at all really.

A lot of people actually liked the record.
Justin: No, I don’t think that’s true.
Jay: A lot of people didn’t like the record.
Justin: They came into the experience expecting to hear something like all of our respective individual bands, and we’d never really played together before, so it was more of a test run than the real recording of an album.
Jay: We didn’t have a vision or anything for Panthers because it was more like friends deciding that we wanted to play together and the opportunity arose for us to record an album.

So at the time, you weren’t necessarily predicting that Panthers would evolve into anything?
Jay: No, because we were all still playing with different people. We were in different bands, except for Kip. He was really desperate (laughs), so we were forced to put everything together really quickly. With everyone still doing their own thing, it was really hard to cohesively write the songs.
Jeff: I think we only practiced like once a week.
Justin: And at some of the practices we’d actually have to write a song. We’d just write a song. That’s what we’d do the entire practice.
Jay: Basically for Are You Down? Kip or Justin or whoever would come in with a whole song, and everyone would fill in their parts, but now it’s more like Kip brings his part and Justin brings his part.
Justin: Kip will bring stuff in, and we’ll all play and make lyrics around it. By the end of it Kip will bring in another chord, and we’ll work with that, and come up with the songs together.

So you guys signed to Vice Records, right?
Jay: We haven’t signed anything.
Justin: But yes, we’re going to be on Vice.
Jay: We just haven’t signed the papers yet. It’s taking a really long time.
Justin: It started in October.

So I guess you don’t know when your next album is going to be released.
Justin: We haven’t written it yet.
Jay: We’re working on it right now. Hopefully the contracts will be signed in a couple of weeks, and then we’re probably looking to record in the winter. I mean, we’re not that worried about hurrying to release it because our EP hasn’t been out for that long.

I feel like your fans are chomping at the bit already.
Jay: Really?
Kip: I feel like the more time we take to put into this album, and the less rushed we are to put it out, the happier we’re all gonna be with it.
Justin: I think the new album is going to be a lot bigger. (laughs all around)
Jay: It’s going to be a lot more melodramatic.

Can it get any more melodramatic?
Jay: I think with the new album we’re making a concerted effort to be really honest and open, and we’re gonna write any kind of song we wanna write. Like, if we feel like writing a fucking salsa tune, then it’s gonna be on the record. It just depends on what comes out in the writing process. We’re not limiting ourselves to a certain type of sound because that may be what’s expected of us.
Justin: On the flip side, I don’t really think you should expect a totally crazy album that doesn’t sound like us at all, because that’s not going to happen either.
Jeff: Yeah, probably there won’t be a salsa tune on the album.
Kip: As much of a departure as Let’s Get Serious was from the first album, I honestly think that the new one will be even more of a departure from Let’s Get Serious.
Jay: The title of the new one is going to be called Adult Dancing. We’ve already decided.
Kip: And the politics are chillin’. I feel like the way it’s going already marks it as decidedly different from Let’s Get Serious.

You’re saying it’s going to be toned down?
Jay: I think it’s going to be heavier.

But by, ‘the politics are chillin”, do you mean that the lyrics aren’t going to be so propaganda-laced?
Kip: Well, that was a joke, but it’s just going to be even more drastically different.
Jay: I think just by virtue of the fact that we’ll have more songs on this album, there’s gonna be material that’s sort of like the EP where it’s personal political stuff, and then it’s going to be a little more, maybe straight-forward.
Kip: We have half of it written; well, we’re pushing half. When we get to the half-way mark, at that point it will be approaching half an hour long.
Jay: I feel like a record that is longer than forty minutes is too long. You have to be a really special band to play longer than forty minutes.

So are you writing an epic album? How long will the new one clock in at?
Jay: At most, I think it’ll be forty minutes.
Kip: Well, I think it’ll probably be longer than forty. But I don’t want it to be super long. We aren’t releasing a double album or anything. If we come in under 50, I think that’ll be fine.
Jay: Maybe we’ll do a few really long songs.
Kip: It could be one long flute solo. You never know.
Jay: Of course, we’re going to build on what we’ve got going. Maybe this album will be a response to Are You Down?. Maybe we’ll change the name to Are You Down? II. Or You’re Definitely Not Down. (laughs)

So who came up with the name Panthers? I’ve read a lot of mumbo jumbo that tries to peg it as taken from the Black Panthers or the White Panther movement. Is there any truth to that or are people getting high at their own art critiques, so to speak?
Kip: Can we just skip this question?
Jay: No, I want to answer this one. I picked the name of the band when I was on tour, and honestly, at the time, I was really into animal names, and I was batting around the idea of naming our band after an animal. And our roadie on this tour started a band called Wolves, and we had been talking about how someone needed to start a band called Wolves or Panthers or something like that. And the idea really appealed to me. Of course people like to try and make a connection between radical political movements and our band because of our political beliefs, but I wasn’t really thinking about either of the movements mentioned above when choosing the name of the band.

Well, it’s really easy to see why people would try and tie you to the Black Panthers. You’re all about propaganda, for one. And, most importantly, you’re all black.
Jay: Yes, spiritually (laughs). The other thing I really liked about using Panthers is more physical and has to do with all the colors they come in. You have black, white, pink and gray Panthers, so there’s a little something for everyone. I’m actually just really into jungle cats.

Well, it’s a bitch to look you guys up on the Internet, because every sports team known to man pops up. That’s really why you picked the name, right?
Jeff: I’m from South Carolina.

I’m from North Carolina.
Jeff: We have the football team.

Wait, I thought we had the football team.
Jeff: Well, it’s the Carolina Panthers, so we both have the team.
Justin: Where do they play?
Jeff (meekly): North Carolina. (loud laughs from everyone)
Jay (mockingly): Yeah, we’re all really big sports fans, and we were gonna be called the Lakers, and then -
Justin: Then the Steelers -
Jay: But we just decided on Panthers.

So what is your fascination with the French theorists? Were you philosophy students in college?
Jay: I dropped out of college.
Jeff: I graduated from college and studied all the hoity-toity subjects. Poetry and literature, of course. I’m actually thinking of going back to get my PhD in English Lit.

Yikes, you’re a poet.
Jay: I did study a lot of French theory while I was there, and it inspired me to a certain extent. With rock it seems there aren’t many options. There is such a narrow paradigm. You’re really supposed to sing about specific things, and there’s a format – verse, chorus, verse, chorus. But I don’t understand why rock lyrics can’t be just like an essay. They can’t have footnotes. You can sort of sing about anything you want, and you don’t have to be trapped in having to rhyme, or having to make a catchy chorus. I think everybody feels trapped into doing that. I feel like everybody feels trapped in their own genre no matter what they’re doing. I’m not saying that what I’m doing is earth shattering or totally different or groundbreaking or anything -
Kip: It is earth-shattering.
Jay: Okay, it is earth-shattering.

So let’s talk about your live shows a bit. You guys are like a fucking carnival on stage, and despite the ties to the highbrow French theorists and radical politics, any idiot can go to one of your shows and have fun. And they do. The last show I went to I thought I was going to get maimed by the crazy chick in the mosh pit.
Justin: The Greenpoint show. That was crazy!

So are you guys mosh supporters or what? Does that tie into your whole punk radical image?
Jay: Our hardcore band had a staunch anti-moshing policy. And then the Greenpoint show really revitalized my love for the mosh. No, really what happened was that we were playing a show in this really big place, and a ton of kids were in the middle of the floor moshing, and some guy stood up on his chair and yelled out that moshing was imperialist. And I was like, ‘Dude that is so stupid.’ Moshing is imperialist? That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard in my life.
Justin: I really like the idea of people at our shows getting recklessly involved. That’s why the show in Greenpoint was a blast. People were really letting loose and having fun.

What kind of response do you guys have outside of New York?
Justin: Better.
Jay: Yeah. Way better. Way better. I don’t know. I just seems like people like us way more outside of New York.

Whoa. That’s weird. I’d think it would be the opposite, since this is your home base. New York is a tough crowd.
Justin: I think we’re lucky because a lot of bands from New York who sell out shows here all the time, say when they travel outside of the city, either no one shows up for the shows, or people show up but no one seems to care. When we play shows outside of New York, people go crazy.
Jay: Outside of New York, people come out to see the shows, and they’re really excited, and they scream and dance and wear costumes -

Wait, they wear costumes to your shows?
Jay: When we played in Connecticut, we played with a couple hardcore bands, and that’s always where we do the best. When it’s younger kids in the audience, they’re always still really excited about the music. They’re not cynical and bitter like 80 percent of the people in New York. Or you know, anybody who just got out of college and is like, ‘I don’t like anything except for Belle and Sebastian.’ So these kids came to the show and they made T-shirts that said ‘Panthers Dance Team’ on the front, and then each one had different lyrics on the back. They were up front and dancing the whole time. Actually, they were more of a show than we were. They were dancing with partners. It was great.
Justin: Guys and girls.

What lyrics did they have on the back?
Jay: I can’t remember. Actually, I didn’t even remember that part. That’s Justin. I didn’t even see the lyrics.
Justin: I didn’t get a close look. They were so young I tried not to do too much looking.
Jay: Anyway, they were super nice and they were really enthusiastic about it. You don’t see people having that kind of preparation for a show in New York City. You don’t see people being like, ‘You know what? I’m gonna wear a costume to see that band. I’m gonna wear a special outfit that applies specifically to the band I’m gonna go see.’ I feel like people who are 20 and below tend to get very, very excited about music in a way that people who are 20 and above don’t really get anymore. It’s because they’re not concerned with what you are and aren’t supposed to like. That really doesn’t come into play with younger kids. It’s more about what you and your friends want to listen to. And any kind of independent music seems exciting, and having a band come and play for you at your school, it’s great. It’s just a totally different thing. That energy definitely comes in New York. It just doesn’t happen for us. (laughs)

The crowds here are hypercritical and walk into shows with this attitude like, ‘I dare you to try and entertain me.’
Justin: The difference in crowds outside of New York is that for kids going to see a show in Connecticut or Ohio or wherever, the bands that are playing are more a part of their lives and not just a part of their lifestyles. And I think for a lot of people here, going to see bands is a part of their lifestyle. And for me, my favorite band is a part of my life. I feel like people outside of the city are more on that wavelength, so it’s much easier for them to get excited about going to see their favorite bands. I mean our best show on tour was Cleveland. They were wiggin’ out.

It’s easy to get trapped into liking what’s ‘in’ or ‘cool’ at any given moment in New York, too. There are definitely waves of different bands that jump in and out of popularity.
Justin: Yeah, I sort of wish there was another band ‘like us’ in New York so we’d have someone to go on tour with. We end up playing with, well, we played with Enon, and yes, we play with other bands, and everybody likes each others band, but I don’t feel like we have a perfect match.
Jay: We don’t have anyone that we can say, ‘Oh, let’s play with that band, because we’re totally similar and we love touring together.’
Kip: Except for A.R.E. Weapons.
Justin: They’re awesome.
Jay: Yeah, they’re so awesome. We went on tour with them, and they were the fucking coolest.
Justin: They were the first down-to-earth band I think we’ve ever played with. (laugh) They are so down-to-earth.
Jeff: At first we were totally freaked out, and then they came in and were like, ‘Wait, I know you,’ to me, and it turns out I went to college with the two of them, and I was good friends with them but then they dropped out, and I never really saw them again.
Jay: Paul Sevigny went to Connecticut hardcore shows that me and Geoff were at. They were real awesome guys, and the best thing about them was that they would go on stage and no one knows what to do with them. I mean, they’re these rugged-looking guys with long beards and shit, and they get on stage with no live instruments. At one show they finished playing a song and it was dead quiet. Nobody clapped, but not because they didn’t like it, but because they just didn’t know how to respond to it.

Like, should I clap or call 911?
Jay: Yeah, and their new album is great. I don’t know if you’ve heard it, but the lyrics are so clever and funny. We thought it was totally crazy when they asked us to go on tour with them. We were like, ‘Why are they asking us?’ I think it’s because they don’t want to be associated with a movement that’s already phased out [i.e. electroclash].
Justin: They are the most misunderstood and mislabeled band in New York right now.

Because people were really quick to lump them in with all the other electroclash bands? I mean they don’t play any live music.
Justin: Exactly, but they also aren’t some dudes in dresses lip-synching on stage either. They’re really good.

Okay, well other than A.R.E. Weapons, is there another band you really enjoy touring with?
Justin: The 90 Day Men. We’re going to go back out with them, actually. As far as straight-up people go, we all get along amazingly. I was really shocked that they asked us to go back out with them. Our music is so much more aggressive than theirs, but they really, they said we made a great pair. I think they’re the best band there is right now.

Well, as far as their characters go, it seems that everyone in the world, girls and guys alike, are in love with them. I’ve never heard a bad word spoken about any of those boys.
Jay: They’re really nice guys, and that’s sort of the most important thing when you’re touring with someone. You want to be surrounded by people, not only that you respect as musicians, but that you respect as people as well, and of course you want them to respect you. The 90 Day Men are just really easy to get along with.
Justin: And it’s nice to play with bands that are like you. For example we played with Primal Scream at Irving Plaza, and we pulled up to unload our equipment in this busted up, car service station wagon, and they had their fleet of tour buses and their full-on entourage to set everything up.
Jay: They asked us where our bus was, and we had to point to the crusty station wagon. But they did have their crew unload all of our equipment too.
Justin: Yeah, there was a three-foot divider between the stage and the crowd. Everything was a total mess. And to show you how much they were in tune and/or cared about the other acts on their bill, they said something to us like, ‘Don’t worry. Everything will go much more smoothly tomorrow night.’ And we said to them, ‘We’re not playing with you tomorrow night.’
Jay: We did sell more T-shirts than them.
Justin: Well, they were selling theirs for like 30 dollars.
Jay: We only sold like three things, but anyway -

So Jayson, one more quick question before we go. What was up with the little blurb on you on [teen fashion website] Alloy.com? They had to clear that with you first, right?
Jay: No, they didn’t. You wanna know how I heard about it? My mom called me and said that she’d seen that I was someone’s crush of the month on the Internet.

Your mom? That’s fucking classic. Well, at least you got some positive press out of it.
Jay: I’m not sure it was positive. I mean, she described me as a chubbier Julian Casablancas with more kick than Avril Lavigne.

Eeks. Oh well, you were her crush. Besides, they say any press is good press.