HiM ///
INTERVIEW BLYTHE PACK ///
DATE JANUARY 28, 2004 ///

I'll proudly admit it. I'm a drum gal. I dance to the mad beats. My heart races and I become flush. At a show, my eyes are always on the drummer. Shit, I've even been known to date a drummer or two. My obsession with percussion was ecstatic when my ears first heard HiM because my eyes had not one, but two drummers to drool over. Layers of thumping and driving drum loops to guide my hips side to side. Insert trumpet, bass, keys, guitar, marimba, kalimba, efx, and vocals and you've got the culmination of almost ten years of an always-evolving project before you, with mastermind and drummer Doug Scharin at the helm.

HiM, an eclectic hybrid of rock, dub, reggae, jazz, and electronic music, is currently comprised of Doug Scharin (drums/efx), Adam Pierce (drums/guitar/marimba/kalimba/ vox), Josh LaRue (guitar), Josh Berman (trumpet), Christian Dautresme (guitar/vox), Griffin Rodriguez (bass/vox), and Rob King (keys).

Doug was kind enough to sit down with me one night after a long week of intense rehearsals right before winter tour to talk shop with me.

I understand there is controversy surrounding your name.
The name is kind of an issue with me right now because there is this other HiM.

Are you referring to the HiM that is death metal?
Yeah. Since I've been here two people have told me that they've recently seen commercials for them. They're getting a huge amount of press push. Obviously, there's a lot of money going into it. We'll just have to see what happens with that. If they get a huge push and become popular here, it might be an issue to keep the name. I have rights to the name. So I can keep it, but why would you? Which kind of sucks. We'll see what happens. I chose that name when I first started this project in New York in 1995. I was doing a lot of experimentation with drugs (laughs), no I mean my four track just trying to learn a lot of recording techniques and I've always been into dub and reggae music. It's pushed me and inspired me to play music. So when I first started experimenting with four track-recording techniques I was going for a Jamaican kind of record production sound and out of respect for that whole tradition, I named it HiM after His Imperial Majesty.

Doug, you've been the only constant in HiM so far. Is this a collective then?
That's definitely one way to look at it, for sure. I think it's always been that way but now there is a live album involved, where as before the first three records were studio records. There was no band, but a collective. I asked people to contribute whatever they felt, presented them with a basic idea, a recording or something. It could be really abstract or could be kind of formed. It's really the same as it is now. We'll get together and play as a band, as a group, a collective. I might come with something completely written out on paper; and since many of the guys in this group read music I can bring sheet music that I'll print out from working on computer. I'll write things on MIDI keyboard and print out the score and the ideas. Sometimes I'll come with a melody and show it to people and we'll put form to it or we'll just start playing something. Like that last thing you just heard us practicing is brand new and it stems from this rhythm I'd been working on and I was practicing it to warm up every day. Chris started playing this guitar rift and others came into the room. Things are really organic sometimes. And that's great. That's sort of the collective element to it. And even the things that are written are going to be interpreted differently by different people. So it's ultimately a collective, but it's a full group in a way, too. Even though we don't get to spend that much time together. These guys are amazing players but they give me the freedom to do what I want with the end result and I'll edit the records and mix them and try to present the record in a way I see fit and try to keep everyone happy. So I'll rearrange them if I want. Ultimately, I have the final say but it seems to work well that way. Trying to get seven people to agree on something is hard.

Sometimes you need a leader.
You kind of need a leader and I'm fortunate to be in that position with some excellent players.

I can tell from watching you communicate with each other during rehearsal that it definitely seems to be working out for you guys.
Yeah, it's difficult and there are so many people; and the whole fucking three people in Chicago, three people here and somebody in DC. The way it flows is surprisingly well. There's a lot of stress involved having such a limited amount of time and we're trying to prepare for a recording to make the basic tracks for another record and I'd really like to do that 100% with everybody if possible. Whereas the last record we did half of it as a whole group and then did things in the studio in pieces. It'd be really cool if this whole record is this band, a representative of this band. We're trying to learn as much as we can in such a short amount of time. It's exhausting, but it's fun.

I've read reviews where critics are hesitant to label HiM as jazz, yet label you such anyway. To me HiM is fusion, music for music's sake. It's interesting that you said organic earlier because that's exactly what I think when I listen to it. I find myself using words like "garbles" and "polyps" when I try and describe your sound, like in the song "Slow Slow Slow" for example. It's like I'm talking a different language when I'm trying to articulate some of the things going on in your music. With all of that in mind, how would you describe your sound?
What did you say, polyps and garbles? There you go. That's a perfect description. I couldn't describe it any better. I have no words for it only because I've never been able to come up with a clever enough way to describe the music. You started off by saying some people are hesitant to call it jazz but they do anyhow and it's true. It's like they have to call it something so I guess I'm going to have to stoop to use this term. Then you said fusion and unfortunately it's a dirty word.

Fusion is not pejorative in my book.
Obviously, and that's cool. I was psyched to see that you used it. That's what it is, you know? What are you gonna say? There are seven people and those seven people are really unique individuals coming from very different places so it's sort of miraculous that it works. Everybody brings their own thing so it's the fusion of those ideas.

I like that your sound is virtually indefinable. It frees yourself from expectations and allows you more freedom to do what you want to do.
I did this interview with somebody and she asked, "What can people expect from your show?" and I said, "Don't expect anything and you might like it." You can't have expectations about things.

Speaking of freedom and not having expectations, how much of your performance is improvisational verses what's on an album?
On New Features (Bubble Core), the second track is essentially twelve minutes of free improvisation and a good deal of another track is improvisation but I think the last record Many in High Places are Not Well (Bubble Core) is definitely not that much improvisation even though we use the process of improvisation to write the stuff. Often songs are written with an open part to it. There's the head of the music and then solo time. And that's how some of the music is structured. Sometimes it's like, here's somebody's solo and sometimes, here's nothing and anything can happen here. It's important to keep that in there. You have to allow for it to happen every night. If you are going to stay within the perimeters of a structured song you can feel it so many different ways from night to night, and you can really connect with things. And yeah, it's really great to play a song in its part and really hit it together and really get in a groove and that almost has the same sort of feeling as improvisation because a certain freedom is created via that connection. Improvising just allows those new ideas to happen and that shit that was going was great; and often our songs will be recorded then that are coming out of another song because of playing it freely. It takes another shape. "Slow Slow Slow" is the fourth song on Our Point of Departure (Perishable). So it's coming from that song. And "Perspective from a slow spin" is the third track on Our Point of Departure so those two tunes we recorded for the last record were on two records previous and very different.

I noticed that there's more of an electronic influence on your new album.
I think that texture that you're describing is reflective of who was working in the band at the time. Dave Pavkovic [drummer] was getting into using his laptop at the time so that element got in there. And he wrote a sequence to "Slow Slow Slow." So we play that song to a sequence that he wrote. He brought that element into it, for sure.

I like it.
Griffin Rodriguez [bass player] is into it too. It's good, yeah. We have one song live that we play to a sequence and I can see us doing another one, but we haven't yet. To not overuse that is cool.

I like how your music is primarily instrumental. When you do use vocals, it is used more as an instrument rather than a distraction. Kristin, of Mum, joins on a few of the tracks from your last album and her voice is incorporated into the music very smoothly.
She was one of the first people to record on that track. I had just taken a track out of a little rift that ended a piece of music in it's original form that I started not to like. So I started trying to reshape it and took these guitar tracks and looped them and was creating a bass from these loops of these guitar tracks; but I kind of screwed around with the edits so the timing was really strange and overlapping and created this really interesting texture and I heard a voice. I had heard Mum's stuff pretty close to the time I was working on it. I thought that would be great. They were coming for their first US tour. Adam Pierce (of Mice Parade) was playing drums with them and asked Kristin to come over with him. I asked her to sing some notes. We didn't have time to develop anything so she just kind of sang this little melody line very quietly off in the corner because she was so shy at the time. It turned out to be a nice texture as opposed to the vocal thing. I like having the vocals. I thought the way the music for that last record was turning out it was calling for vocals. I guess I somewhat consciously wanted to make it a more accessible record.

Not so abstract?
Not so free, twenty minute long songs that no one plays on the radio. I thought I'd play the game a little bit try to help our cause out some.

Sometimes what musicians want to accomplish on the stage differs from what they want to convey on a studio album. Is this true for you? If so, how?
Yeah, I think so. I don't think the records sound like we do live. I think that's been fine. I think it's quite possible that this next one will sound more live. Which would be a nice change for a HIM record to be not so studio oriented. I always worked on a record; and it's such an organic process for me to throw things down and let them start to take shape. If something is interesting it will find its way into a song and if it's not it will die and that's okay. I'm always kind of doing bits and pieces and thinking this could be interesting, a new texture here, just kind of let it build. I've always approached it as two different things and they are two different things and I don't necessarily believe that your record needs to completely represent you as a sound live and you can do something live that's going to be interesting for people to listen to.

How boring is it to hear someone play when they are playing the same exact thing all of the time?
It's impressive when people can pull it off. I remember seeing PJ Harvey play at Irving Plaza after the Dry record came out and they sounded exactly like the record. There were three people, too. It was impressive. They did it spot on. But no, I know what you mean. I wanna go hear people play. I wanna put on a record and if it sounds cool to listen to I'm gonna keep it on. They are two different things.

I talked to a musician not too long ago and he said that he hated playing live and was all about playing in the studio. I thought that was interesting. Which do you prefer: playing in the studio or playing live?
It is interesting. There have been times where I'm way more into the studio. I get afraid that it will make me too lazy if I don't push myself to play out more. I think it's healthy as a player.

It pushes you to take risks that you wouldn't normally take.
When you do it live, you've got to get up and be on. It pushes you. It makes you a better player and the more you learn the more interesting your records will be.

The better you sound in the studio.
Exactly. They sort of are two different things that are complimentary to each other, extremely connected. Maybe the studio is a little easier than being on the road for nine months out of a year.

What's your touring schedule like?
I stepped back a little bit. It used to be more intense before. HiM toured a lot in the beginning, but right before we became a live band I toured a lot with two other bands. I was doing back to back tours all of the time. So nine months, sometimes, out of the year. Now it's more like three. I'm doing Mice Parade so that happens every once in a while but we generally don't do long tours with that group. It's usually a couple of weeks or something, a few months out of the year now, maybe four. I'm hoping to make it more this year and it's possible. This summer it's going to be all summer long.

You're about to embark on a tour right now.
Just now.

You're going to play places like the Knitting Factory in NYC, the Earl in Atlanta, my alma mater, William and Mary.
Oh, really?

You're gonna have to show those geeks a good time.
They better show up, man.

I'm gonna have to call some of my peoples in Virginia. See if I can help you out.
Yeah, we haven't played a college in a long time. I hope it's cool.

Yeah, well I'm bummed because when I went to school there, they didn't have any cool shit coming through.
I might have played there once before but I can't remember. I'll recognize it, though. I've been to Williamsburg.

Ye Olde Colonial, yeah, be sure to visit the Tripping Tree, hang upside down and scream at tourists.
We'll have to do that. Take a lot of acid and play the show (laughs).

Does being a talented musician in a successful underground band live up to your expectations: plenty of groupies, lots of drugs, are you going to make good "Behind the Music" material? Tell me.
We're a pretty tame group. Are we going to make good "Behind the Music" material? I hope so.

Motorcycle accidents, drug addictions, infidelity?
There will be plenty of all that. Don't worry. I want to be on the One Hit Wonder show.

You may need to develop a gimmick real quick for that.
We'll see if this band holds together long enough to cause a stir. I don't know. All that stuff stays within the band.

One day you'll spill it. You're story will be told.
I guess I should start thinking about making that shit up. This tour should be a circus. Twelve people and a bunch of people don't know each other.

You'll get to know each other real quick. ///