CRAIG WEDREN ///
KNITTING FACTORY ///
TEXT SHOLA AKINSHEMOYIN ///
PHOTOS JASON VAUGHN ///
FEBRUARY 24, 2006 ///

Being a longtime fan of Shudder to Think, I was naturally thrilled to have a chance to see singer Craig Wedren live. Even better was getting to meet him, and even better was his amazing personality. Words cannot do justice to Craig's warmth, nor to the beautiful movement of his songs. One thing that may give away his charisma is the fact that he actually started the interview...

Craig: Have you ever been to the NY Knitting Factory?
No, I don't think I have...
Craig: I sort of grew up, well, not grew up, but I went to college in New York. There was an old Knitting Factory there, and I saw every band that was dear to my heart in this cute little gallery space. Then they moved to a larger space in New York but still retained sort of a vibe, and then they built this one in a giant strip mall! I guess it's appropriately surreal, it's appropriately Hollywood.

So I'll start with the question everyone probably starts with. You've said there was "enough love gasoline left in the tank" when you guys broke up...so is there a chance of a reunion?
Craig: Sure, I mean we talk about it intermittently, but never all of us in one conversation. So we'll sort of talk about it, everyone will get a little excited, and then, that seems to have been enough, all that anyone really needs at this point commitment-wise.

So did all of you jointly decide to end it?
Craig: The last couple years were a hard and strange sort of growing pain time where I got sick, I had cancer, we made 50,000 B.C. I loved the record, but it was a hard transitional record to make. 50,000 B.C. was very very difficult and then I got sick during it. We just needed to grow and change. The question was, as with any relationship, do you do it together, or do you do it separately? And when it's a 4-way marriage that you've been in for 12 years, it just became...I won't go so far as to say "diminishing returns" but we were at risk of starting to have diminishing returns. We got into film soundtracks, which was an amazing breath of fresh air for us, but I think generally we were just not feeling good about being locked in to having to make records, and tour, and Nathan really needed to do his own thing. And I needed to do my stuff. That tension became unbearably difficult. He was starting to be frustrated. I was very frustrated, and literally sick. And it all settled down a little bit towards the end. And then we were on our last tour, I think it was the First Love, Last Rites tour, which was a soundtrack that we did with all these different singers, which was such a fun tour, it was like a weird variety show with Shudder to Think and soundtrack music.

How many years ago was this?
Craig: This was in 2000.

Have you done the growing that you wanted to since then?
Craig: (Laughs.) You're like, so...when are you guys getting back together?

No, I love your new stuff actually. I'm going to buy Lapland tonight at the show.
Craig: Thanks. To finish the breakup story, we were on this tour and we were in the Chicago airport and Nathan had been having panic attacks and meltdowns, and his and my friendship...we had been best friends, our friendship was totally...it's just clich?©. It was just fucking Behind the Music bullshit. And we so didn't want anything to do with it. We were very much a family. And still are, albeit in a more far-flung kind of way. So Nathan just has this meltdown in the Chicago airport and he's like "I quit." And Stuart and I...because Kevin was playing drums then, but he'd only been playing for a little while. Stuart and I kind of looked at each other, because we used to walk home after 50,000 B.C. rehearsals, when I was sick, and we'd be like, "how long do we go before we pull the plug? Because it doesn't feel good, it doesn't feel magical." And we had never had a songwriting period, or an album-writing period that didn't feel totally magical. Then we did the soundtrack stuff, which brought some of the magic back, but then Nathan kind of flipped out and Stuart and I just looked at each other in the airport and were like, "fuck it. Let's just let sort of let it go." For a minute we were like, we could continue, just find another guitar player, or not - just do it as a three-piece, but it had been twelve long years. And Stuart wasn't into doing the soundtrack stuff. He wanted to be a bass player in a band.

How much of all the frustration was Epic [STT's record label]? I read somewhere that they wanted something more "commercially palatable."
Craig: Of course. They're a major record label. And look what's happening to the major record labels. They can't even figure out how to make their hits hit any more. Let alone some fucking weird art band that wanted to do film soundtracks.

That's what I don't get. They signed you knowing...they heard your music. What did they think you were going to do?
Craig: Oh yeah, we made Pony Express on Epic, which is far and away our most difficult record. Um, I don't know what they thought we were going to do. Again, it's so clich?©. It's the same old story of: band gets signed because they have very passionate fans, not a zillion fans, but a good base, and they think that they can somehow take it to the masses, and it doesn't work.

If you could do it again, would you go with an indie instead of Epic?
Craig: No, not at the time. If it were 2006, yes, but in 1996 there were major labels and there were indie labels. Indie labels were no money, total freedom, no exposure. Major labels, you were able to make a living. And maybe it's still the same way, except I think that even major labels can't even pay their artists any more. And it's so much easier to make great-sounding records at home now. So we probably would have just done it ourselves, started our own label.

Do you have a home studio now?
Craig: Yeah, I do all my film soundtrack stuff just in the back bedroom of my apartment in New York. And then with Lapland, I recorded drums in a regular studio because I can't do that in my apartment, but then I did everything else at home.

One thing I noticed, looking through your career, is that you've never produced other bands, as far as I can tell.
Craig: I produced a band in the 90s called Cakelike, I've been producing some stuff for my friend Amy Miles, who sings in another project I have called Baby.

Do you not like producing other bands, or has it just not come up?
Craig: Oh, I like producing other bands. I gotta really love them. It's not just some gig that I want to do. And also I'm producing my own stuff, and that takes up a lot of my time. It's a major endeavor producing someone else. You become a part of their band. But I would love to do that. It just hasn't come up much.

I was reading an interview with Death Cab for Cutie and they said you were one of their favorites...
Craig: Really, then take me on tour you guys!
...I was going to ask you, are you aware of bands that quote you as an influence?
Craig: I sort of am. It's interesting because I was talking to my manager Chris a little while ago, and there's all these bands that love - quote unquote "LOVE" - Shudder to Think, and that means the world to me. Because at the time, to be perfectly honest, we felt somewhat underappreciated. So to see the seeds that we sowed then sort of reaping accolades now, and hearing strains of our music in other people's music who we enjoy feels incredible. But honestly, (laughs) I really do want to go on some bigger tours. Not to complain - I've only done a few weeks here and there since Lapland came out, and I haven't been on the road since Shudder to Think, but these guys I'm playing with tonight, The Dead Science, have you heard them? They just called me, and said hey, we love your music, and we would love to set up a tour and we'll open for you and be your backing band, and I was like great! Come on, let's do it! Let's let this be the first domino! Because it's hard to schlep around by myself.

How come you didn't tour with Baby?
Craig: For a few reasons. First of all, it was my project, and it would have cost too much and been too much of a schlep. Because there's six people in the band, and they're all in their 30s, and they all have legitimate careers that help them to live, in New York City nonetheless, which is a big tab. And I guess it was such a conceptual project that I was just afraid of following through on Baby. Which is a shame because when we were good live, it was so fun. It was a good show.

It's such a good record!
Craig: Yeah, I love that record.

Back to your influence: So the guy from Bright Eyes, Conor Oberst, put out Lapland. And I was digging around a little bit, and I found out that when Pony Express came out, he was 12. Are you ever like, what the hell is going on here?
Craig: I love that, man. That's why I do what I do. I remember over the years I have certainly had the opportunity to go up to people who inspired me to make music and be like, thank you. And if I could put out their records, I would do it.

Any chance of you touring with them?
Craig: I hope so.

(Chuck walks over, and I'm introduced graciously to the man who played keyboards for a short Shudder to Think stint. Humorously, he and Craig are wearing almost identical leather jackets. Craig admits that he took it from his girlfriend Meggan's closet.)

Craig: I hope so. I'm hopeful. Sometimes I feel like...and maybe this is just me being self-pitying or something, but sometimes I feel like I suffer from, and Shudder to Think to some extent suffered from, everybody loving it, but somehow it not quite being the coolest thing in the room. I mean my music isn't that cool.

Oh, I totally disagree!
Craig: Really, I feel like...

Are you kidding me? The So Into You video, and what's the video where you're in the elevator?
Craig: Oh, the So Into You video, with the dive?

Yeah, and it's so cool!
Craig: I know, I loved it!

Sorry, I'm totally nerding out on you, huh?
Craig: Oh, no, believe me, I appreciate it. But sometimes, deep in the night, I'm like wait, why are there all these people who supposedly love this music so much, but then I go on tour and only 20 of them show up on a given night? And I know that's the way that it is, but at the same time, I feel like, well maybe, who knows? Maybe everybody loved it, but at arms length. I'm not sure if that's true.

I wanted to ask you about your soundtrack work. Are you aware of your sales numbers?
Craig: No, what do you mean?
Like, the Soundscan numbers. Do you have any idea how many records you've sold?
Craig: No, I remember back in the 90s, I remember Pony Express record sold...Adam Wade!

(Enter Adam Wade, drummer for Shudder to Think. Craig goes to put him on the guest list. I chat with a fellow fan who remembers STT opening for Pavement. When Craig comes back, I ask him who he's opened for.)

Craig: We opened for tons of people back in the day.

Oh, you were on Lollapalooza, so that counts for like 30 bands.
Craig: Exactly. But back in the day, Smashing Pumpkins, Foo Fighters, Pavement. It was awesome. But I'm curious about this sales thing you were talking about. Because I remember back in the 90s I think we had sold like 30,000 copies of Pony Express record.

Do you want to know? I printed it out. 50,000 B.C. sold 12k. Pony Express sold 41k. That's pretty good!
(Craig relays this info to Adam who says "I guess they haven't sent the money out yet.")

Get Your Goat 12K. They all did alright. But what I thought was interesting is that the Velvet Goldmine Soundtrack sold more than all your STT records combined.
Craig: Oh, that I totally believe. But, I mean, we only had two songs on it. There were so many other bands on it. And Radiohead's on that one. Radiohead did the Roxy Music stuff.

You only wrote two of the songs on that? "Hot One" and...?
Craig: And "The Ballad of Maxwell Demon."

Oh, they're so great. Do you think, looking back over your career, do you think that soundtracks were kind of your calling in a way?
Craig: To a certain extent. But I think that for me, satisfaction-wise, they're very complimentary. I was not happy solely making records towards the end. Nobody in Shudder to Think was. And I think I would start losing my mind if I were only doing soundtracks all the time. Because with soundtracks you're working for somebody else, and you're ultimately serving someone else's vision. And with records, you can be as selfish and self-centered and take as long as you want.

I have a question from someone on myspace. He wants to know, not to be negative, but what disappoints you? What gets under your skin?
Craig: Disappointment, not annoyance? Because when you say under my skin, my apartment is on Broom Street and it's ridiculously loud. Every day I walk to the window and I feel like Archie Bunker shouting out at the traffic. But that's just petty New York bullshit.

(Another fan, from the 2nd opening band, comes up for an autograph. They chat for a moment, during which the musician says he's really looking forward to the set, and Craig once again expresses his appreciation.)

Craig: So disappointment. The main thing, which is what Chris and I were talking about before. It's the disconnect between...I know how I feel about the music I make, and it seems like handfuls or pockets of other people feel that way, and I'm saying this from a tour perspective, because I've been on tour for the last week, playing for very few people. Where are the people? To be perfectly honest, I know you're supposed to be cooler than that, and not give a shit, but I give a shit.

Of course, I mean, you want people to come...you're putting on a show.
Craig: Yeah, you make music, and you assume - you have to assume, that if you connect with it, there are other people out there who connect with it. So what's frustrating, I wouldn't even say disappointing is the right word. What's frustrating is we live in such a cluttered, noisy...
...Broom Street...
Craig: ...world. Yeah, exactly. It's not "nyee, wah, I'm not selling enough records" which is like, whatever. But when I make music, I'm trying to connect with people, otherwise I wouldn't leave the security of the computer in my bedroom.

Okay, last question. Do you have a plan B?
Craig: Well, I do soundtracks!
That's a pretty good plan B.
Craig: It's not even. It's a dual plan A.
So no plan B, it's purely optimistic?
Craig: I only ever have Plan A's. But I can have as many Plan A's as I like.

In closing, let me say that Craig put on a fabulous show with the Dead Science. The entire tour was only a week long, so if you missed it, you'll have to wait for the next time around (it's rare: I've been waiting for Craig to come to this coast since 2002). The one thing you can do is buy Lapland, which I did after the show. It's my favorite record of 2006 so far. Packed with amazing melodies, harmonies, and emotional moments. I can't recommend it enough. Buy it at www.craigwedren.com.